July 2023

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Jessica and I spoke about several stories from the past week involving religion and politics.

— For absurd reasons, MAGA cultists think FOX News supports The Satanic Temple. (2:15)

— Survey: Belief in God, Heaven, Hell, angels, and the devil is lower than ever before. (14:45)

— Does Vivek Ramaswamy‘s Hinduism really matter to GOP voters? (25:55)

— Texas atheists sue Fort Worth for rejecting ads for event opposing Christian Nationalism. (39:33)

— Christian hate-preacher: Even if your husband’s an axe murderer, “you cannot divorce him.” (44:50)

— Judge: WV prison officials can’t force an atheist inmate to profess Christianity. (51:15)

— Don’t believe the lie that growing megachurches tend to avoid politics. (58:41)

— Two more House Democrats have (quietly) joined the Congressional Freethought Caucus. (1:08:33)

— An Alabama church’s $4.5 million “pastoral recovery center” raises so many red flags. (1:12:10)

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For a lot of listeners, I suspect conspiratorial thinking is something you connect with religion or right-wing politics. But of course it’s also rampant in the world of New Age spirituality. Think Gwyneth Paltrow and Robert Kennedy, Jr. They’re not explicitly religious, but their fans are not exactly known for their critical thinking skills.

My guests today have been dissecting that kind of BS for years. Julian Walker has written extensively on cults and gurus and New Age nonsense. Derek Beres is an author & media expert who’s worked with a number of media and tech companies. Julian and Derek are also active yoga enthusiasts, a practice that’s become rife with spiritual silliness that they oppose.

Both of them, along with Matthew Remski, are co-hosts of the podcast Conspirituality, which tackles how spiritual beliefs that can nurture creativity and meaning have transformed into memes of a quickly-globalizing paranoia.

They just published a book about this topic called “Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat.” (Affiliate link)

Please support the show at https://www.patreon.com/friendlyatheistpodcast

0:00 Intro

1:45 Introductions

4:30 Your podcast began shortly after the pandemic shut everything down. What was it about that time that made you think this was the right time to talk about these issues?

7:20 What is it about being a contrarian that makes people—right-wing atheists or New Age believers—susceptible to propaganda?

12:00 You recently had an excerpt of your book, a part about RFK, run in Time magazine. What’s the danger of RFK for people who haven’t followed his career?

14:30 Why is anti-vax propaganda so powerful given that we just went through a global pandemic?

18:10 Who is responsible for spreading spiritual misinformation? It’s not like the New Age crowd has a FOX News or Newsmax.

21:21 Why do conspiracy theories always seem to align with right-wing politics?

24:20 Do the purveyors of this nonsense know it’s BS or are they True Believers?

28:00 Is it helpful when people like Dr. Oz and RFK run for office and lose? Or are those still opportunities to spread misinformation regardless of the outcome?

32:48 What has frustrated you both about media coverage of spiritual grifters?

36:45 Who’s more dangerous: Gwyneth Paltrow or Alex Jones?

41:00 What is the “eugenics to yoga pipeline”?

45:20 What one question do you wish people would ask when grifters pitch a product?

49:25 Should we be debating vaccine efficacy?

55:15 What’s effective in combatting these lies?

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Caroline Mala Corbin is a professor at the University of Miami School of Law. She teaches classes involving the U.S. Constitution, the First Amendment, the Religion Clauses, the Free Speech Clause, Feminism and the First Amendment, and Reproductive Rights. Her scholarship focuses on the First Amendment’s speech and religion clauses, particularly their intersection with equality issues.

We spoke about the Supreme Court’s recent decisions, the fear of the legal challenges that lie ahead, what could happen when non-Christians use “religious freedom” arguments in court, and more.

1:36 How bad are things right now?

2:42 What was the “303 Creative” case?

7:05 Does it matter that no gay couple asked Lorie Smith to design a wedding website for them?

10:30 How worried should we be about the ruling in 303 Creative?

15:26 Can Colorado do anything to circumvent this ruling?

17:25 Should atheists or Satanists use this ruling to discriminate against Christians?

20:30 Why did Neil Gorsuch compare this case to the 1940s’ Barnette case involving the Pledge of Allegiance?

28:55 How do you teach Constitutional Law when this Supreme Court continues to ignore precedent and distort existing law?

30:38: What was the Groff v. DeJoy case all about?

33:44: What does it mean that SCOTUS changed the previous minimum standard to one that requires substantial costs to a company?

42:30 What religious liberty issues are coming down the pipeline? What should we be paying attention to?

45:05 Do teachers have a First Amendment right to refuse to call students by their pronouns? Is the government controlling their speech by forcing them to acknowledge trans identities?

49:33 Why do students in Texas and Florida need their parents’ permission to get out of saying the Pledge of Allegiance?

53:22 Will the expansion of “religious liberty” rights be a useful tool for non-Christians pushing for progressive interpretations of the law?

58:06 What’s your prediction for the next big change to SCOTUS, barring an unexpected death?

58:53 When you meet with constitutional lawyers, what do you all talk about?

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Jessica and I spoke about several stories from the past week involving religion and politics.

— Pat Robertson is still dead.

— Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders defends Cross drawing at Governor’s Mansion. (0:52)

— Sen. Josh Hawley shared a fake Patrick Henry quotation to promote theocracy on Independence Day. (16:58)

— Mormon parents sued a school district after their son had sex in the parking lot. (38:00)

— What should Sweden be doing after a man burned the Qur’an outside a mosque? (47:55)

— Are Secular Americans the new abortion voters? (1:07:20)

— Insurers are avoiding Australia’s Anglican schools due to child sex abuse risks. (1:18:38)

— Faith “switching”: Religions are leaking members and can’t plug the holes fast enough. (1:23:05)

— SPONSOR: Factor, America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit. Head to factormeals.com/friendly50 and use code friendly50 to get 50% off.